Apparently Controversial Subjects
Aug. 19th, 2010 02:58 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
This is a subject which I actually have a lot of fairly strong feelings on, but generally don't talk about because it tends to result in a conflagration of other people having feelings. For the most part, I honestly don't care if people agree with me or not. What annoys me is that people who disagree with me will at times single out or persecute myself or people like me because we are Icon Thieves On The Internet And That Is Mean And Inconsiderate Of The Icon Artists Out There.
For the most part, I think the whole "omg you are an icon thief" issue has died down over the past few years, or perhaps I have just fallen out of fandom enough that I am not aware of it as much. Regardless, I finally want to just make a post explaining my feelings on the whole issue, and why I blatantly steal icons.
Since I do not want to specifically single out anyone, as that is not my point, I am going to recreate an example. But this is something I've seen fairly regularly lately. Namely, editing fanart and claiming it do not take.
Example:
- Made by
aviy. Do not take.
To many of you, maybe why this is hypocritical is obvious. But if it is not. Let me go step by step.
First Level - Hoshino Katsura. She is the author, artist, and all around creator of D. Gray-man, the canon that character, Ticky Mikk, is from. I don't know the exact details of how much ownership she has over DGM, but I think it's safe to say copyrights are shared between herself and Jump, the magazine DGM runs in. Without a doubt she is the complete spiritual owner, since legalities aside, it is her baby.
Second Level - The above icon is fan art. Fanart in Japan is a unique creature. While I believe it is technically still copyright infringement, it is not just permitted but encouraged because it's seen as free advertising. However I believe that if Jump and/or Hoshino WANTED to tell people to stop drawing her characters and putting them on the internet, they would be within their rights to do so.
Third Level - Copying, saving, and redistributing this fanart across the internet. Another interesting thing about Japan is that while fanart is highly encouraged, scanning or directly copying images are not. It's considered very rude to scan an artist's work and put it online. Similarly Japanese websites often go to great lengths to prevent their art from being 'stolen' (saved to your hard drive) and redistributed or claimed by plagiarizers. I specifically got browser add-ons like noscript to circumvent those measures.
Fourth Level - Once taken, this fanart was edited. It was color modified, cropped and shrunk. Then it was placed on a RP journal by the 'creator' in this case 'me', and 'claimed'. Do Not Take. Because I put effort into this and thus it belongs to me.
Now, let me say that I actually do respect the amount of work that goes into icons. That particular one was nothing. But I have edited the shit out of Ticky's icons over the years. I have put a lot of time into all of my icon sets, and in doing so have increased my photoshop skills and my pride in what I do. I know people who put in even more effort than me, and in some cases true levels of artistic skill such as professional level coloring. I very much 'get' that 'this was work' and 'I like to be recognized' or at least 'It's kind of annoying to see everyone taking my shit'.
However. It is so blatantly and incredibly hypocritical that years later, I still find it startling.
That said, if you are fine with being a hypocrite (as I am fine with being a thief), by all means, continue. My issue isn't really that one is worse than the other, it's more the accusations of calling others thieves when you are so blatantly one yourself. But if you do not do this, then I have no qualms with you.
Let me move on. Since the argument for why stealing icons is not okay tends to have something to do with the work that went into creating that icon, and the argument that it is it's own artistic endeavor which somehow lends some ownership to the project. I would like to address that first.
First Level - Back to Hoshino. She is the only person in this line up who is not guilty of theft. DGM is her creation. DGM began it's run in May of 2004; over six years ago. It has 20 volumes out and releases monthly. I don't honestly think anyone reading this can comprehend the sheer level of work that goes into six years of regularly ('regularly') creating the same project, particularly under the pressure of the manga publishing market. And just talking about the amount of drawing does not even cover it. Scripting, creating, crafting a world and story and characters with unique personalities, looks, backgrounds, perceptions, goals and so on is not a joke. It's a fuck ton of work. And btw DGM is really quite good at all of those.
I once saw someone somewhere say they felt writing epic fanfic was comparable to writing a novel. Let me not mince words: that thought was moronic. An incredible amount of work and detail goes into creating something out of absolutely nothing. Particularly in order to get something worthwhile. I realize excellent fanfic is work, it takes talent and perseverance. But there are oceans between taking someone else's work and your own inspiration and continuing it to your satisfaction, and completely crafting a whole new world, populating it, giving it a history and depth and feeling and a compelling story the likes of which inspires people to 'steal' it for their fanfic.
In this, manga is no different. Whether you like DGM or not, Hoshino did an incredible thing, and it was more work than I can guess.
More than that, DGM (and all manga) are more than just the six or whatever years of their lives the author has put into it. No, it is also the accumulation of their many previous years of work and practice to bring their art to a professional level. I once had an art teacher who, when asked 'how long does did it take you to paint that', he would answer something to the effect of 'thirty-five years'. Because when you an artist every fucking time it is not just how many hours you put into that page, it is also all the hours before that learning how to draw. Artists of every type, whether your draw, paint, write or play, build upon themselves. The icons we so casually crop and color and correct are ten or twenty years worth of someone else's work.
Second Level - The fanartist. I would love to link you to the original fanart, but I can't from this computer. I found it on one of those scribbly japanese art blogs, along with quite a bit of other Ticky fanart. I iconned it because it's pretty.
Obviously the fanartist does not have the claim to Ticky that Hoshino does. This person did not conceptualize him, build him, craft something that other people want to draw themselves rather than their own creations. None-the-less, the skill behind this piece of art is his own. The fanartist has every right to be proud of this piece. They did not get this kind of skill in a day, or a month, or a year. I can tell very clearly from the fanart, particularly since Ticky is a very difficult to draw character, that at the very least if you were to ask 'how long' this piece took, the answer would be probably well over five years. Probably closer to ten. Nothing to sniff at.
Third Level - Since I both found and saved and edited this fanart, there's only three levels to deal with here. I am the third. I used photoshop to change the skin color and background color a bit. In other icons I've actively colored them or changed the lineart to suit my needs. This is not a piece of art I had any 'right' to, any more than I have a 'right' to the official icons I predominantly use. However I wanted it so I took it.
I am a thief. There is very little of anime or manga fandom that is not theft in some regard. The reason onemanga shut down recently? Not because the publishers are meanie heads. They have legitimate claims that we not scan and post their product online, thus circumventing the need to purchase it. And the manga authors who we claim to love and adore and want to be like are the true owners of these things so many people casually claim as theirs and ostracize or judge others for daring to steal. And if there is going to be any level of being affronted at how DARE people be so RUDE as to not respect what I CREATED, that is a joke, because you will be pretty rare to find any japanese medium explicitly stating it's totally cool to scan, edit, and use their copy righted work. Have you ever noticed that in japanese fanart, artists frequently redraw scenes or panels they particularly like? That's because it isn't kosher to simply scan it.
I'm okay with being a thief. I don't justify it. That's how it is. In the end I am okay with the moral or social sacrifice to indulge my hobby. However if I were to feel GUILT on the subject of THEFT, I can assure you I think stealing Hoshino's work and reading DGM online, and editing the shit out of her work for my own vanity is far more offensive, not to mention actually stealing, than ganking your icon even though it said "Do Not Take" and you worked very hard on it.
And that's why claiming stolen work in fandom drives me crazy. People who 'own' icons, people who only allow certain scanslating circles to have their scans, translators who do the same, scanners who watermark their scans. Somewhere along the line, somehow, it became okay to steal from the actual artists whose livelihoods are involved in this shit, whose actual blood sweat and tears went into creating what we so casually take and distribute, but stealing from the other thieves? Unacceptable. Inconsiderate.
For the most part, I think the whole "omg you are an icon thief" issue has died down over the past few years, or perhaps I have just fallen out of fandom enough that I am not aware of it as much. Regardless, I finally want to just make a post explaining my feelings on the whole issue, and why I blatantly steal icons.
Since I do not want to specifically single out anyone, as that is not my point, I am going to recreate an example. But this is something I've seen fairly regularly lately. Namely, editing fanart and claiming it do not take.
Example:
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
To many of you, maybe why this is hypocritical is obvious. But if it is not. Let me go step by step.
First Level - Hoshino Katsura. She is the author, artist, and all around creator of D. Gray-man, the canon that character, Ticky Mikk, is from. I don't know the exact details of how much ownership she has over DGM, but I think it's safe to say copyrights are shared between herself and Jump, the magazine DGM runs in. Without a doubt she is the complete spiritual owner, since legalities aside, it is her baby.
Second Level - The above icon is fan art. Fanart in Japan is a unique creature. While I believe it is technically still copyright infringement, it is not just permitted but encouraged because it's seen as free advertising. However I believe that if Jump and/or Hoshino WANTED to tell people to stop drawing her characters and putting them on the internet, they would be within their rights to do so.
Third Level - Copying, saving, and redistributing this fanart across the internet. Another interesting thing about Japan is that while fanart is highly encouraged, scanning or directly copying images are not. It's considered very rude to scan an artist's work and put it online. Similarly Japanese websites often go to great lengths to prevent their art from being 'stolen' (saved to your hard drive) and redistributed or claimed by plagiarizers. I specifically got browser add-ons like noscript to circumvent those measures.
Fourth Level - Once taken, this fanart was edited. It was color modified, cropped and shrunk. Then it was placed on a RP journal by the 'creator' in this case 'me', and 'claimed'. Do Not Take. Because I put effort into this and thus it belongs to me.
Now, let me say that I actually do respect the amount of work that goes into icons. That particular one was nothing. But I have edited the shit out of Ticky's icons over the years. I have put a lot of time into all of my icon sets, and in doing so have increased my photoshop skills and my pride in what I do. I know people who put in even more effort than me, and in some cases true levels of artistic skill such as professional level coloring. I very much 'get' that 'this was work' and 'I like to be recognized' or at least 'It's kind of annoying to see everyone taking my shit'.
However. It is so blatantly and incredibly hypocritical that years later, I still find it startling.
That said, if you are fine with being a hypocrite (as I am fine with being a thief), by all means, continue. My issue isn't really that one is worse than the other, it's more the accusations of calling others thieves when you are so blatantly one yourself. But if you do not do this, then I have no qualms with you.
Let me move on. Since the argument for why stealing icons is not okay tends to have something to do with the work that went into creating that icon, and the argument that it is it's own artistic endeavor which somehow lends some ownership to the project. I would like to address that first.
First Level - Back to Hoshino. She is the only person in this line up who is not guilty of theft. DGM is her creation. DGM began it's run in May of 2004; over six years ago. It has 20 volumes out and releases monthly. I don't honestly think anyone reading this can comprehend the sheer level of work that goes into six years of regularly ('regularly') creating the same project, particularly under the pressure of the manga publishing market. And just talking about the amount of drawing does not even cover it. Scripting, creating, crafting a world and story and characters with unique personalities, looks, backgrounds, perceptions, goals and so on is not a joke. It's a fuck ton of work. And btw DGM is really quite good at all of those.
I once saw someone somewhere say they felt writing epic fanfic was comparable to writing a novel. Let me not mince words: that thought was moronic. An incredible amount of work and detail goes into creating something out of absolutely nothing. Particularly in order to get something worthwhile. I realize excellent fanfic is work, it takes talent and perseverance. But there are oceans between taking someone else's work and your own inspiration and continuing it to your satisfaction, and completely crafting a whole new world, populating it, giving it a history and depth and feeling and a compelling story the likes of which inspires people to 'steal' it for their fanfic.
In this, manga is no different. Whether you like DGM or not, Hoshino did an incredible thing, and it was more work than I can guess.
More than that, DGM (and all manga) are more than just the six or whatever years of their lives the author has put into it. No, it is also the accumulation of their many previous years of work and practice to bring their art to a professional level. I once had an art teacher who, when asked 'how long does did it take you to paint that', he would answer something to the effect of 'thirty-five years'. Because when you an artist every fucking time it is not just how many hours you put into that page, it is also all the hours before that learning how to draw. Artists of every type, whether your draw, paint, write or play, build upon themselves. The icons we so casually crop and color and correct are ten or twenty years worth of someone else's work.
Second Level - The fanartist. I would love to link you to the original fanart, but I can't from this computer. I found it on one of those scribbly japanese art blogs, along with quite a bit of other Ticky fanart. I iconned it because it's pretty.
Obviously the fanartist does not have the claim to Ticky that Hoshino does. This person did not conceptualize him, build him, craft something that other people want to draw themselves rather than their own creations. None-the-less, the skill behind this piece of art is his own. The fanartist has every right to be proud of this piece. They did not get this kind of skill in a day, or a month, or a year. I can tell very clearly from the fanart, particularly since Ticky is a very difficult to draw character, that at the very least if you were to ask 'how long' this piece took, the answer would be probably well over five years. Probably closer to ten. Nothing to sniff at.
Third Level - Since I both found and saved and edited this fanart, there's only three levels to deal with here. I am the third. I used photoshop to change the skin color and background color a bit. In other icons I've actively colored them or changed the lineart to suit my needs. This is not a piece of art I had any 'right' to, any more than I have a 'right' to the official icons I predominantly use. However I wanted it so I took it.
I am a thief. There is very little of anime or manga fandom that is not theft in some regard. The reason onemanga shut down recently? Not because the publishers are meanie heads. They have legitimate claims that we not scan and post their product online, thus circumventing the need to purchase it. And the manga authors who we claim to love and adore and want to be like are the true owners of these things so many people casually claim as theirs and ostracize or judge others for daring to steal. And if there is going to be any level of being affronted at how DARE people be so RUDE as to not respect what I CREATED, that is a joke, because you will be pretty rare to find any japanese medium explicitly stating it's totally cool to scan, edit, and use their copy righted work. Have you ever noticed that in japanese fanart, artists frequently redraw scenes or panels they particularly like? That's because it isn't kosher to simply scan it.
I'm okay with being a thief. I don't justify it. That's how it is. In the end I am okay with the moral or social sacrifice to indulge my hobby. However if I were to feel GUILT on the subject of THEFT, I can assure you I think stealing Hoshino's work and reading DGM online, and editing the shit out of her work for my own vanity is far more offensive, not to mention actually stealing, than ganking your icon even though it said "Do Not Take" and you worked very hard on it.
And that's why claiming stolen work in fandom drives me crazy. People who 'own' icons, people who only allow certain scanslating circles to have their scans, translators who do the same, scanners who watermark their scans. Somewhere along the line, somehow, it became okay to steal from the actual artists whose livelihoods are involved in this shit, whose actual blood sweat and tears went into creating what we so casually take and distribute, but stealing from the other thieves? Unacceptable. Inconsiderate.
no subject
Date: 2012-01-31 04:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-12 03:12 am (UTC)